Energizing Bitcoin & Ai

Jake Corley (00:06.324)
liquidation event.

Justin Ballard (00:07.877)
the when Trump announces tariffs and freaking crash the crypto market.

Jake Corley (00:16.215)
There's so much we can talk about.

Justin Ballard (00:16.263)
Thanks a lot, Trump.

Yeah. The $88 million short bet that went out like 10 minutes before he made it as an announcement.

Jake Corley (00:28.183)
Have you noticed that that keeps being a trend?

Justin Ballard (00:30.385)
Suspicious, yeah, yeah. Little bit.

Jake Corley (00:32.461)
Little Suspicious.

Jake Corley (00:38.883)
All right, we are back. Today we're gonna be a little bit different format. So if you are listening, that's still gonna be great experience. But if you're watching on YouTube or Spotify, we actually have some kind of slides to go through and maybe this works. Maybe it doesn't, who knows? We're here to answer the question. AI infrastructure, there's so, I mean, I think I've read every article that comes out. I get fed it by Chad GBT and my life revolves around this. And so there's a big question around.

Justin Ballard (00:52.733)
Fiancé.

Jake Corley (01:08.879)
Is this a necessary build out? Or is this a bubble? Or is it both? Is it somewhere kind of in the middle? And so we want to kind of go through some of the stats and figures and major talking points from just tons and tons and tons of articles that have been released really over the past few months. And yeah, it will allow you to... It's all Justin's fault. He's never home. He's always on the road.

Justin Ballard (01:28.209)
Also, we're sorry we've been gone for so long. Sorry about that. It's my fault. I'm not. I am. It's true. You also were on the road though too this time, Mr. Marathon, right?

Jake Corley (01:39.511)
We're just, I mean, we say, I've been on the road. I've been on the road, but I did do my marathon. So for anybody who's been watching, think I talked about on some of other podcasts, mission accomplished. We got it done. It really sucked. And I don't know if I'll ever do another one, but Hey, check the check the list. Got it right here. You know, the metal, I sleep in it. So it's real.

Justin Ballard (01:46.865)
BOOM.

Justin Ballard (02:01.155)
It's real. Look at that.

Is that one of those medals that's like, like, you know, a participation trophy to have a deal? Is that what this is?

Jake Corley (02:13.857)
Well, I'm not Kenyon, so I didn't get first, second or third, but I got the medal that everybody from fourth to my position got.

Justin Ballard (02:18.055)
Dude, I'm not gonna lie.

If I, if I got a participation trophy for that, I'd still be very proud of that. So good job, man. Congrats. Yeah. Did you do it with your dad? Who'd you do it with? Yeah. Okay. That's cool, man.

Jake Corley (02:26.369)
Yeah, we got it done, doing hard things. But speaking of, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, he does ultra marathons. And so was really easy for him. It wasn't hard at all. Very hard for me. My whole right leg cramped up at mile 10 and I had 16.2 more miles to go. Very hard to run when your leg doesn't wanna work. But we got it done, We got it done. But thank you, dude.

Justin Ballard (02:36.764)
What?

Justin Ballard (02:50.439)
Yeah, well congrats man, that's awesome.

Jake Corley (02:56.163)
I feel accomplished. I think I'm gonna taper my expectations with my next side quest that I do, because that was a lot of training, a lot of time. But I'm in the best running shape in my life, so I'm gonna keep running it. That's been kind of therapeutic in a way. But getting back into pickleball, getting back into jiu-jitsu, I don't know if we need to tell everybody how I beat you and Sarah two on one in pickleball repeatedly.

Justin Ballard (03:12.38)
to it.

Justin Ballard (03:21.969)
What did we play afterwards? can't remember. was another round. ping pong. Tell me about that. Yeah. I had to go play you in ping pong so I could redeem myself from the pickleball court.

Jake Corley (03:26.519)
Ping pong. Yeah, yeah.

Jake Corley (03:32.099)
That was a ping pong table for ants. It needed to be at least three sizes larger.

Justin Ballard (03:35.005)
That explains my skills on it, man. If I can drop dimes on there, it's difficult. Is this a ping-pong table for ants?

Jake Corley (03:43.603)
I'm looking at buying a ping pong table and throw it in the garage, just so I can avenge that loss.

Justin Ballard (03:49.053)
Practice. Hey man, I've got a long history with ping pong, so don't feel bad. I take pride in my ping pong abilities.

Jake Corley (04:00.003)
You're a ponger, dude.

Justin Ballard (04:01.457)
Ponger. All right, my bad. Distracting. Sorry.

Jake Corley (04:06.435)
All right, so all right, getting into AI infrastructure. So no secret, I think everybody knows this, maybe you don't, but this is the largest capital migration in modern history that's leading into the rush to build out as much AI infrastructure as possible. And right now we're talking to the tune of billions, tens of billions, hundreds of billions of dollars per year that are going into building out.

Data centers and the required energy infrastructure that it needs to power this is not like the AI revolution is not limited by Chips or by silicone or even capital it's limited by energy and that's where most of the build that's going to come from and so

Justin Ballard (04:54.781)
Do you know, sorry, I'm going to ask you because you do have a lot more knowledge on this subject matter than I do, but what is the capital number being deployed this year, like into AI infrastructure? you know that?

Jake Corley (05:11.605)
I have it later in here. think this year it's somewhere the tune of 250 billion. And that number is projected to go up every year for the foreseeable future. It's a lot of money. It's a lot of money, which, that's one of the big things that this question that we're trying to answer, is this a, you know, a necessary build out? you know, is this a boom or is this, you know, a bust? it, you know, is it another bubble?

Justin Ballard (05:17.181)
Head groove.

Jake Corley (05:39.315)
And the argument there is that the capex needed to build this isn't necessarily supported by the revenue that these companies are currently generating. And so we'll kind of dive into all of that. But yeah, it's like how sustainable is this type of investment year over year over year? We're talking about the reallocation of lots of funds because where do these guys raise from? They raise from, you know, large institutions and banks and

All that, where do they raise from? Well, it's because they're from other people, right? This is all, all the money comes from somewhere, right? And so how assist, once you suck up everything into this vacuum and you're building to the tune of trillions of dollars, is there enough capital to be able to pull this off? But if you look at what's at risk, this is from their viewpoint, OpenAI, Microsoft.

Justin Ballard (06:17.767)
Right.

Jake Corley (06:36.163)
everybody else that's building these large language models on the quest to achieve super intelligence or AGI, it's a zero sum game. There's one winner. And so if you are standing to be the winner at what is arguably the most impactful technology in the history of our human race, potentially, what are you willing to spend?

Justin Ballard (06:48.029)
Right.

Justin Ballard (07:02.589)
freaking wild. Right. Everything.

Jake Corley (07:05.697)
What are you willing to spend? It's a land grab. You spend everything, everything you could possibly do to be able to be the winner. And OpenAI definitely at this point has a very clear lead, I would say, terms of, definitely from a revenue standpoint.

This is going to be the foundation of not only, it's not just chat GPT, it's robotics. Robotics have had a huge week. Figure AI, NEO has been announcing their new humanoid robot that is going to be, yeah, it's pretty remarkable and it's pretty friendly looking. But yeah, like do your dishes and change your clothes and like clean the house and.

Justin Ballard (07:25.648)
I use it.

Justin Ballard (07:46.671)
I saw that, right?

Jake Corley (07:52.439)
all of that, but it's all trained on AI, all robotics will be, right? And so this is gonna be the base layer to what everything is built on, right? Whereas there's no apps today that are being built that are not being built as AI is the foundation. Whereas everything that came before this has now had AI integrated into it. Now it's gonna be an AI first approach from here on out, right? So there's a lot of stake and that's why there's so much money that's going into it because everybody wants to be the winner.

The closest equivalent I could make would be if there was one company that owned the internet.

Justin Ballard (08:28.177)
Right. I mean, that's crazy, dude. That's scary too. I know we've had our, you know, late nights discussing what's going to happen, but man, that it is some crazy stuff. And, yeah, to think that one company could own that kind of power is pretty freaking wild and scary.

Jake Corley (08:52.131)
Yeah, mean, it brings up a whole lot of other questions. And I think we could probably have entire episodes dedicated to if, yeah, if like AI plays out the way that we think it will and society was to enter into what many think would be some sort of like utopia where, you know, we're cured cancer and other diseases and we're living longer and quality of life is higher. Yeah.

Justin Ballard (08:57.494)
Right. We need to have one of those.

Jake Corley (09:20.777)
To get to a utopia, you have to go through a dystopia though. And so large amounts of unemployment and that kind of stuff. But we'll save that for another episode. moving on, so data centers are really, it's the new oil fields. It's a great analogy. Every investor, developer, and operator wants a piece of the action. The demand is absolutely real and compute has become just absolutely critical. And to build a compute, have to the infrastructure.

Justin Ballard (09:23.557)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Justin Ballard (09:28.529)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jake Corley (09:51.123)
Vacancy rates let's talk about this from the from the data center side are at historic lows 2.3 percent and this is the I've even seen lower than this and this is in North America and 73 percent of new capacity that is coming online. So the new pipeline of new data centers are coming on 73 percent of that's already leased

And we have more capacity to come out online than ever before. And it's already leased. So these groups are trying to lock in every way that they possibly can. Right. On the construction pipeline, we've got 5.2 gigawatts under construction in primary markets. There's at least 30 gigawatts of capacity that is planning on coming online. This is for the U.S. And then global investment, like we said, projected to surpass one trillion between 2025 and 2030.

Justin Ballard (10:14.171)
Right, Man.

Justin Ballard (10:41.053)
That's wild. Good grief.

Jake Corley (10:46.189)
Power demand expected to rise.

Justin Ballard (10:46.585)
Overall power demand is that worldwide power demand increased by 166?

Jake Corley (10:50.659)
Now this is, I think that that is actually worldwide power demand because that number is much lower than I anticipated. So that's 165 % by 2030. For the US, I've seen 10X power demand growth by 2030. And we're seeing, you know, if we want to meet this demand, like the grid build out alone would be close to a trillion dollars. So it's 720 billion, give or take. But we know that that's not going to happen for variety of reasons. We can kind of talk more about that, but there will be some infrastructure below the grid for sure.

Justin Ballard (10:57.383)
Mm-hmm. Right.

my gosh, yeah.

Justin Ballard (11:16.881)
Right.

Jake Corley (11:21.923)
Um, let's put this in perspective. Let's contextualize how big Of an infrastructure build out Uh, this is and so just from 2025 to 20, uh 2028 Uh, yeah, we're looking at yeah, probably close to three trillion dollars The interstate highway system from 1956 to 1992 costed or cost 500 billion dollars all the roads In the u.s. The dot-com fiber build out in the 1990s

was I think somewhere around like 20 billion. That was about a hundred billion. Which is still a lot. That's a lot of money. The rural electrification act 1936 1950s 550 million dollars initially.

Jake Corley (12:09.761)
the largest infrastructure build out we've ever seen and it's not even remotely close.

Justin Ballard (12:16.977)
I was going say combined. All right. You could probably combine everything else. Yeah. Right. Man, that's remarkable. I did, well, this is going to the basically, basically the question we're talking about here is like, I know these projections are what they are and they're based off of data and expectations.

Jake Corley (12:19.893)
All of those, yeah, and then multiply it a few times over and it's still larger, right?

Justin Ballard (12:41.425)
but how much of this is actually gonna come to fruition? that's basically what I know we're gonna wanna get at here, but.

Jake Corley (12:48.227)
Yeah, I think it's very there's a lot of projects that won't ever see the light of day but the I don't doubt that there's any question around the demand from hyperscalers, right? There's a million things that can kill a deal, right? Regulatory permitting communities nearby not enough water Fibers less of an issue, but it could be a deal killer Capital is definitely not a constraint for anybody that's building anything as long as you know what you're doing

Justin Ballard (12:52.24)
Right. Right.

Justin Ballard (12:58.993)
Right. Yeah.

Jake Corley (13:17.923)
But yeah, projects will kind of come and go, but the demand seems to only continue to increase in perpetuity. And so I guess one of the little asterisks is you can spend all day looking at these stats and find completely different stats from different houses. And so don't hold me to these exactly. These are the ones that we pulled. They tend to range, you know, kind of all over the place, but looking at the power generation deficit crisis.

current capacity, this was as of 2022, so it should be a little higher than this. So let's just say about 20 gigawatts nationwide. And the required capacity by 2027 is what the projecting is 95 gigawatts. And so we would need 78 gigawatts over the next five years to be brought online, right?

Justin Ballard (13:52.701)
Mm-hmm.

Justin Ballard (14:05.957)
Yeah, that's a lot of power.

Jake Corley (14:08.195)
So talk to me about the, you know the on-grid side of the world a little bit better than I do. When you're putting in a load request, what's the size, what's kind of the size cap that you can get, or what are you seeing in that space?

Justin Ballard (14:11.333)
Mm-hmm.

Justin Ballard (14:22.809)
Well, you can put in as much as you want, but with SB6 now having passed and I'm talking Texas in particular, right? But that does end up changing the viability of some of these requests that people are putting in. And it's intended, I think really to weed out some of the tire kickers or people that are trying to exploit kind of the gold rush that we're seeing right now by just

getting an FEA in hand from a utility and then trying to flip it. They're requiring you to pay first a study. And that can get very expensive. I think they can go up to a million dollars for a study. That doesn't mean they're going to require that, but they can require that. But typically, you know, I'm seeing people put in requests for 200 to 400 megawatts and the timeframe of those, depending on where you're at in the queue and also kind of

what utility or what region you're asking for it in. Those can get kicked out a substantial amount of time. I mean, you're talking even just to get the study done, like 12 months to 18 months just to get the study done. Right. Right. And that's just one phase. like there while there's no cap on how big of a load you can ask for.

Jake Corley (15:34.295)
That's just one phase.

Justin Ballard (15:47.099)
You know that you're limited by transmission and distribution and you're limited by, what you're willing to pay for that study. but you know, there's not, I, at least I'm not aware of any, size limit that you can ask for. But I mean, some of them, they weed out real quick. They're just, it's not feasible to think there's going to be transmission lines. They're going to take a gigawatt or two gigawatts or four gigawatts somewhere. Most likely, right? Most likely there's not going to be anything like that. So they're going to have to build that out.

I mean, I think if you're talking two to 400 megawatts or more, you're probably looking at three, four years before you can reasonably have something better. so it's.

Jake Corley (16:26.401)
And how much changes in three or four years as well, right? It could be, just from like a chip perspective and how many, like now you have these like single racks that are a megawatt, right? Four or five years, that could be double that. It could be more than that.

Justin Ballard (16:29.937)
Alright, right, well that's man dude. huh.

Right. Well, and I think totally, totally. And if you look at like Bitcoin mining, this is where there are some correlations. At least I think there's going to be a lot of correlations is that we've seen such tremendous efficiency gains in Bitcoin mining over the past five years. know, like when we got Jay going, highest hashing machines were like, they're coming out with hundred terahash machines. Well, you know, we've got our site at Emory and it's

You we're about three and a half megawatts right now. We're doing over 200 petash. So, you couldn't do that or anything remotely close to that a few years ago. So the amount of energy you need to reach a certain level is a lot less actually now than what it was previously. And that's due to the efficiency gains in the machines and just kind of, you know, things getting better over time. And I do think that the AI world is going to see the same kind of growth and efficiencies.

You know, while right now they kind of will look at a minimum of say 250 megawatts for a site. Well, I think five years from now, 100 megawatts is probably going to be a lot closer with 250 megawatts is right now. And so, you know, that's something to keep in mind when you're looking at sites and things you want to take down is while today might only be good for Bitcoin mining five years from now, that might be an AI site. And obviously valuations and numbers are very different. Now, I think just like Bitcoin mining.

Man, we used to be in the good times, you're getting like, you know, 42 bucks, or I'm sorry, 420 bucks a pet hash. Now you're down to like, you know, $49 a pet hash. So things change, right? And the margins change and they shrink. I think you, likely you would see that in the AI world as well. But, you know, I, so I, that's the problem kind of is like we plan for today.

Justin Ballard (18:35.089)
based on what information and data we have today, but when you got timelines of three, four years before you're gonna see the power that you're looking for get there, I mean, look how fast things are changing now. There's gonna be a dramatic difference in what an AI operation looks like four or five years from now from what it does today. I think it's inevitable that we'll see that kind of efficiency gain, but it makes it hard to plan. Because when I wanna go get a plan,

I'm getting it today based on what it looks like today. Here's the, I can model it out. Here's what it's going to look like. AI changes so fast and you got such a long timeframe before you're going to get that level of power there. It's going to be complicated and it's going to be interesting to see what happens. I think that's why there's a lot of these opportunities for kind of that bridge power right now with natural gas. I'm not trying to plug you guys, but what you're trying to put together, that kind of stuff is.

It allows you to basically play in your operation, get online now and run a productive, effective, profitable operation while you wait for the grid power to get there. And during that time, things may change. Your plans may change, but you're, you're running an operation right now that was planned for based on today's economics, today's valuations, today's servers, today's equipment. And you know, when, when the grid power gets there, you're probably have an opportunity to.

kind of see what the market's done over that period of time and then play for that.

Jake Corley (20:04.865)
think the, I mean this is kind of my own thesis, but if I'm looking at where the puck is going, not to plug us, I believe in what we're doing, and I think it's solving a huge problem, but off-grid power I think will make up a larger percentage of the overall mix for AI power in the long run, because of all the problems that we're talking about here.

Justin Ballard (20:29.457)
Yeah, it's going to have to, man. It's going to have to.

Jake Corley (20:31.437)
But there's also the NIMBYism. There's the scrutiny. You're seeing these mega projects that are multiple gigs that are getting canceled, like at the one yard line, due to a lot of people in the community around there. They're talking about their retail energy rates that are going up. Water's drained from municipalities. They don't want the buildings there. Yeah. And I think you're going to see more and data centers are going to get pushed to the fringes, particularly as they go up in.

Justin Ballard (20:53.713)
Yeah, it's gonna have to.

Jake Corley (20:59.383)
you know, the power rating, you know, to be able to build these super, super large sites like you're seeing with like Abilene and other places where you have plenty of land to be able to pull that off. And so I think that's ultimately, you know, kind of where the puck's going. But, you know, as we're talking about here.

Justin Ballard (21:01.169)
Right.

Justin Ballard (21:12.455)
Well, and also just the reality of like, don't know how constituents are going to feel about being basically the ones building out the infrastructure for that AI that in turn is taking their jobs. Right? Like these are real things. These are like the political side of it that I think doesn't get talked about enough, but like you're building now, like your replacement right now. And so.

At some level it's like, man, people are not going to want that to continue to happen at some point. I really, I believe that. And so, you know, when you're talking like, I'm going to build out the utility level grid for AI that is going to come end up taking your job probably. and it going to make things very different than what you ever probably could have imagined things being like as a kid.

I think it's going to be, it's going to be tough to justify putting those all on grid. it's like, you, if you want to have this kind of level of power, which again, is part of what SB six, I feel like is kind of looking towards, it's like, you're going to also have to be a contributor. And so your own power generation can remove a lot of the political obstacles. Some of these groups are going to face. Um, but also it's probably going to be a necessary thing for the future because.

Like when people worried about Bitcoin mining and the power usage, have weaker tail during, during, you know, peak times. And, when the grid is needing that power, because we're incentivized, the incentives are not enough for AI groups to shut off. And so they're not going to like, you're still driven by the dollar. So they're not going to. And so I think it's just, it's inevitable. You're going to have to have behind the meter off grid power being a large portion of what's coming on. Cause they're just.

The, I mean, the timelines, the utilities move in, it's just, it's not feasible to think that they're going to be able to handle that. They're just not.

Jake Corley (23:09.891)
think about it from a national security perspective as well. Like what is the likelihood that World War Three is fought in the same way that we fought every other war, right? Especially with like in the age of AI. I think it's gonna be a battle of like AI models and there could be obviously you know a drone component or now like humanoid soldier component or but AI is going to be the base layer that is going to drive

Justin Ballard (23:21.457)
Alright.

Justin Ballard (23:34.098)
It's crazy we're saying.

Jake Corley (23:37.047)
You know drive all of the changes, you know in warfare, right? And so if you think about AI being powered, you know on grid It would be very easy to for one take out all the cities like all the power for the citizens But then take out your AI, right? So wouldn't you want your AI to be completely? sovereign on its own grid Right that you can completely control for one to be able to protect citizens, but do you check the AI like?

Justin Ballard (23:58.46)
Right.

Jake Corley (24:06.141)
It's it's it's a smarter move. And so if you think about like getting back to like this AI infrastructure, like our bottleneck here is the fact that we just simply don't have enough power and infrastructure to turn on GPUs. But now let's contextualize that in the world stage. Right. So Trump and the president of China, China, they've been meeting a few times because now they're having this trade battle, but kind of back and forth. China has built

significantly more power generation than we have, like orders of magnitude larger, and they're doing it much faster than we are, right? And so they don't have the same power constraints that we do, right? So they can bring on as much compute as they possibly want. So now going back to zero sum game, okay? One company's gonna control probably most of the AI.

What are the chances that it becomes a Chinese company? And would you want a Chinese company to control all your AI? Or would you prefer it to be us? It's a lesser of two evils, which one would you prefer? I'd kind of prefer it to be us, right? But they don't have the same power challenges that we do. They are building massive, I think they just built the world's largest dam, where it's like, I think it's like 40 gigawatts or 45 gigawatts in a single location.

Justin Ballard (25:14.471)
Right.

Justin Ballard (25:25.831)
Okay, grief.

Yeah, I would prefer it be us too, but...

Jake Corley (25:30.347)
They are literally doing everything they possibly can to bring on as much power and as much computer power.

Justin Ballard (25:39.737)
Isn't it wild what's going on? We're even talking about it. Right. It's just crazy though. my gosh. Yeah. This is nuts, man. And, but it's very real. And, yeah, I mean, I think the U S has to get serious about, the generation side of this. Like it's great that the AI companies are, you know, they're propping up the economy right now. feels like, and

Jake Corley (25:40.483)
That's the game that we have to play. Yeah, it's nuts. We wouldn't be talking about this a years ago.

Justin Ballard (26:06.017)
And there are such a large part of kind of our economic machine we've got going and, managing to continue to, to grow despite, some of the employment issues that we're seeing and, the, the kind of weakness in the, the macro kind of side of the economy. But like, I feel like the AI growth is what's continuing to prop us up and, and propel us forward. but man, the generation side, like you're basically laying out is, is.

a huge component and so much of that is like state level type of stuff, not necessarily private companies trying to build out, you know, their AI infrastructure. This is like, we, we need this from like the feds and the state level down looking at this for the serious issue that it is. And like, we have got to be, we've got to get more generation online. We just have to, because you're right. Like,

competing with China and trying to make sure that they don't beat us to you know, the end goal of the AI race is It is very important and I was actually trying to talk to my uncle about some of this the other day and You know, I don't we're all in the same little bubble right of Of what we talk about and it's been that way about Bitcoin. I feel like it's that way about AI stuff right now, too We can all talk about how serious this is and like how

how important it is to be focused on being number one in it and making sure that, you know, we achieve it before they do. But man, I don't think most people understand how like serious this is and how close it is. Like how close to when this is actually going to be a reality for what we all live in. don't feel like everybody, I don't feel like the vast majority understand that at all.

Jake Corley (27:51.203)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jake Corley (28:03.435)
No, no, not at all. Not at all. I will say the DOE, think, is making a lot of moves. So Secretary Wright and everybody in the DOE, they have definitely pulled back on some or proposed pullback on some of the environmental regulations that were really hamstringing energy companies in a way. And so it's rolling some of that back to be able to ultimately bring on more power. They're rolling back some of the

Justin Ballard (28:10.642)
Mm-hmm.

Jake Corley (28:32.973)
renewable stuff, some of the hydrogen stuff. A lot of that. There's a lot of been a lot of, you know, kind of criticism of that. But I think it's been honestly great for if this is what we're solving for, I think it's all great. To be honest, let's talk about some of the some of the new, you know, it's a land rush. So let's talk about some of new builders that are entering this space. There's been it seems like every day just new mega projects are being announced now.

Asterix will they see the finish line? Who knows who knows you know I have some horses that I want to bet on and we'll talk about some of those I'm not gonna say which ones I'm betting on which ones I'm not betting on Because I don't be held to it, but I know a lot of things I know a lot of people and There's some things I'm skeptical about there's some things that I'm really bullish on but

Justin Ballard (29:25.927)
Mm-hmm.

Jake Corley (29:29.187)
Regardless, here's the stats. Here's some of the things we're go through just a handful of projects that are popping up This has made the headlines. I mean so much so that my dad who is not an energy He's just familiar with what I'm working on called me and was asking about it. So Fermi America They have said that they're gonna build an 11 gigawatt Project the total 11 gigawatts online by 2038, but they want to have a few hundred megawatts online over the next year

They have zero megawatts online today and they have zero dollars of revenue today. But they got Rick Perry. They got the Rick Perry name, you know, secretary of the DOE, former governor of Texas, as my uncle calls him, Governor Goodhair. That was the only thing he was good for. He was a little bit before my time, so I don't really know how good of a governor he was or not. He was your time though. I mean, he was your prime time.

Justin Ballard (30:24.623)
yeah, he's my time. I've met him a few times. Yeah. Yeah. I used to work for Kevin Brady back in the day and I met governor Perry a few times there and yeah, I look, I, I, I don't have anything bad to say about, about the guy, man. I think, I think he's all right. And, he's had some interesting, interesting growth personally over the last few years. should read a story about him and, some of his therapy that he had,

Jake Corley (30:27.66)
Yeah?

Justin Ballard (30:54.385)
I don't want to say it out here because I don't want to throw the dude's business out there. I've seen it in an article though, so guess it's not, wouldn't be me throwing it there, but you should check it out, man. It's interesting. We'll talk about it next time.

Jake Corley (31:07.223)
Well, his name was good for something because I think it contributed to, they had 11 gigawatts and Rick Perry on a pitch deck and they raised.

Justin Ballard (31:16.797)
That's all you need, man.

Jake Corley (31:18.723)
2 billion in equity 682 was during their IPO so but they raised 1.2 billion prior in both convertible notes, pref equity and then lines of credit and then IPO'd and last time I checked they're sitting around like a 13 billion dollar market cap. No revenue, no megawatts, but a really great pitch deck and so hats off to them like those

Justin Ballard (31:43.559)
That is that where a lot of this comes from though? The bubble talk is things like that. that.

Jake Corley (31:49.859)
Yeah, I mean this if that's the topic of the day this is that's kind of where it comes from right and so there's a lot of questions around like how will they be able to You know support this kind of Valuation how are they gonna be able to generate this amount of revenue? I think what's interesting about what the way they structures they actually structured as a REIT So it's more of a real estate play than anything and so There's a lot of tax advantages, but there's also kind of a lot of drawbacks in my opinion

But that's but it's interesting. So they're yeah, so they're building it's a combination of Nat gas some nuclear some solar ton of land and as I understand it They're also building the buildings and then they're going all the way to energize racks, right? And then they're just doing a lease rate, right? So all that's kind of rolled into one turnkey Which is not bad it comes with its own complexities to go that far in the value chain

Honestly, it's something that we're kind of evaluating as well, just because from a timing perspective, it may actually make the most sense if we're solving for the quickest to be able to power a GPU. If I can build the power really quickly, but I don't have the space in between the building and the rack to power a GPU, maybe we have to go a little bit further. So it's interesting. It's good for, as we're about to kick off a capital raise, it's great for us as a comp, as with Crusoe, who we'll talk about in a second.

Another one, Prometheus Hyperscale. I don't know if you've heard anything about this one.

Justin Ballard (33:14.845)
I haven't.

Jake Corley (33:16.247)
So this is chaired by ex-BP CEO Bernard Looney, partnering with NG to co-locate data centers with renewable assets in Texas. And what I find particularly interesting about this is that him kind of going a little bit too all in with renewables at BP was one of the straws that kind of brought the camel's back for him being at BP. And he said, I'm just doubling down. I'm doubling down on renewables for data centers.

I don't know a ton about this. I've just seen some of the press releases, but I thought that that was like really interesting. So it was worth bringing up. Um, is interesting to see that somebody that was as high up as him as a CEO of one of the largest energy companies in the world is getting into this space. I think that's a, I think it's a, it's a good signal. But once again, back to the question of the day, does it signal a bubble?

Justin Ballard (34:02.01)
Right, yep.

Jake Corley (34:08.663)
I don't know, or is it smart?

Justin Ballard (34:09.081)
I don't know if that signals a bubble, but yeah, I think it's a recognition of the industry as the, of where it's going. And I heard Jerome Powell talk about this actually a little bit, think yesterday, or I read it, you know, talking about whether or not AI is a bubble and compared to the dot com bubble. And he basically rejected that idea. Not that I'm like a big

fame of pal, I'm not touting him as if he's the expert on anything or everything, you know, looking at the earnings of some of these companies, we're talking about the ones here that are kind of more, you know, on the other side of it where it's like, they're just raising money based off of, potential or what they think they can do. There are companies like Nvidia.

that, to show that this is very real, right? There, there are real dollars going into some of these projects and real, companies that are earning, you know, tremendous earnings. In videos, I don't, I'm not going to be able to tell you the numbers, but I saw a video about their numbers the other day and they were phenomenal. The growth that they have had on the revenue side and on, on, just basically every aspect of every metric you would want to look at.

in a public company, they have had explosive growth. So there are real dollars being spent from somewhere, like you said, and it's driving the whole machine of our economy right now.

Jake Corley (35:48.355)
Nvidia is first $5 trillion company and there's been a lot, there's been a lot of, I don't know if you've seen the debate, there's been some charts that show, you know, Nvidia invest.

Justin Ballard (35:51.983)
Right. Right.

Jake Corley (36:00.707)
100 million or probably not a hundred million, probably a couple billion dollars into OpenAI. OpenAI takes 100 billion and puts it into Oracle. Oracle takes 100 billion and puts it into, and it's like very circular. you know, some people say, Hey, well, that's just what an economy is. Sometimes some people say that, well, yeah, was the world's most valuable company propping up kind of this entire industry because everybody needs their GPUs, which then further inflates revenue numbers.

Justin Ballard (36:02.565)
And in Nokia?

Justin Ballard (36:14.524)
Right.

Justin Ballard (36:27.623)
Right.

Jake Corley (36:30.061)
their pipeline numbers, therefore the share price, you know, maybe it just becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy over time. I cake myself for not realizing what Nvidia could have been a few years ago, because I was talking with some of the guys that worked on the energy side of Nvidia for high performance compute, particularly with like subsurface data. And I was like, that's cool. You know, it's a very niche use case. You know, there's...

Justin Ballard (36:37.199)
Right, right.

Justin Ballard (36:45.191)
Mm-hmm.

Jake Corley (36:58.691)
you know, was it maybe a few hundred, maybe a few thousand people in the entire industry that would be leveraging like that use case, you know, having that amount of data that you would need like high performance compute to be able to crunch the data and everything to myself. Oh man, I mean, this guy's so smart. He should go, you know, work somewhere else instead of like, you know, a video game company like Nvidia. And, uh, I got that one wrong. I got that one wrong. I did not, did not see this coming. I don't know if anybody saw it coming, but I definitely didn't see it coming. Um,

Justin Ballard (37:27.645)
I did not. I didn't see it coming. But I didn't pay attention to myself either. I find myself late, You know, just the way it is. Just can't do nothing about it, I find I'm cool with it though. You know, just get on work forever.

Jake Corley (37:29.119)
Yeah, yeah, it's.

Jake Corley (37:44.323)
So let's talk about a shout out, FOPrmium partners, Jose Ortega, know, good buddy of ours. We've had him on the show. Go back and watch the episode with him. We need to have him back because I want to have him kind of tell us the update of their site, but they're planning on building a five gig off grid site in Midland County, planning on having first power up I think by like next summer. He's been really helpful as I've been having in this process. I mean, he got a head start on this before I did and we may have some ways to kind of collaborate.

Justin Ballard (37:49.585)
Yeah, congrats.

Jake Corley (38:12.055)
you know, down the line, super smart guy, understands energy, Bitcoin, understands AI. So, shout out to them, super excited about what they're working on. Let's go into a few that have made headlines recently. These are particularly in the world that I'm kinda playing in these days. So Poolside, another two gig off-grid campus. They're leasing with CoreWeave for like 15 years. They've raised

2 billion at a 14 billion dollar valuation They are Partnering with somebody on the gas. I don't remember exactly who it was, but it's pretty much all natural gas at the Longfellow Ranch in West, Texas So yeah, just just kind of more signal for the space and then the one that we were talking about earlier, which We've known these guys since the early days

You know both cully and and chase over crusoe and now they're just an absolute behemoth and every time I log into I log into Bloomberg It's a new article on crusoe every day and I'm like damn these guys and they're just churning out Progress they're just churning out new new deals and new sites and new funding. They just announced that they just raised 1.4 billion in equity tripling their valuation in just one year to over 10 billion dollars

Justin Ballard (39:13.437)
Powerhouse. Yeah.

Ha ha ha

Jake Corley (39:36.865)
Right, so if you don't know, Crusoe started off with just digital flare mitigation, right? So being able to lower emissions and being able to monetize flared gas at the well site, and they did it with Bitcoin mining, right? And that was pretty much their business for a long time.

Justin Ballard (39:37.255)
Congrats. Good grief.

Justin Ballard (39:52.926)
Century Oil and Gas. We were their second, I believe second project they ever did. That's why, that's why, yeah we were early. We were early. was, congrats to them though man. They have done very well.

Jake Corley (40:00.887)
You were early, man.

Yeah.

Jake Corley (40:10.787)
So similar to Giga, they got into the manufacturing side. They bought a manufacturing company to solve their own bottlenecks for the same reason that Giga did. They kept mining. I don't remember exactly when they made the kind of hard pivot to AI, but it's been sometime in the last couple years. They sold all of their mining assets to NIDIG, I believe. That sounds right. And then now they are the number one group that's building Stargate. So that's OpenAI.

Justin Ballard (40:13.853)
Mm-hmm.

Justin Ballard (40:31.367)
think so. Right.

Jake Corley (40:40.653)
It's them, it's Oracle, handful of others. And so they have that, and then they're also doing a big old deal in Wyoming, your old neck of the woods, with tall grass, right? So a lot of natural gas generation to be able to data centers up there. And according to what they're saying, they've got 45 gigawatts in the pipeline that they are planning on building.

Justin Ballard (40:49.725)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Justin Ballard (41:04.221)
That's wild.

Jake Corley (41:07.725)
How nuts is that?

Justin Ballard (41:08.977)
That's wild. Remember when...

Jake Corley (41:11.115)
Yeah, that's more than all data centers in the US combined.

Justin Ballard (41:15.581)
That's pretty crazy. Yeah. And just, you remember just a few years ago, we're all like hanging out with Colleen and what was it? The horseshoe Baydale, right? Well, yeah, man, there's big time now.

Jake Corley (41:18.615)
That's nuts.

Jake Corley (41:28.117)
yeah, yeah, yeah, I forgot he was there. I know, I know. Hopefully, Koli didn't lose my number.

Justin Ballard (41:35.495)
crazy. I know. Congrats though. That is awesome, man. I mean, it's cool to, it's cool to, yeah.

Jake Corley (41:42.775)
No, it's amazing. It's a super great success story. They're obviously doing real shit, but going back to the question of the day, boom, bubble, both. I want to just stress just the big numbers and the magnitude of what we're talking about here. So let's go into the case for the bubble. So there are a lot of new players, not necessarily the ones that we've talked about today, but there's a lot of new players.

with very little operational experience, right? So there's a lot of execution risk. This is very reminiscent of the dot com era. This is very reminiscent of even the shale land rush. We saw a lot of people who just had no idea what they were doing coming into this space.

Justin Ballard (42:32.893)
And a lot of people made a ton of money. They still didn't know what they were doing in the space, but they still made a ton of money. So yeah.

Jake Corley (42:35.415)
Yeah, yeah. Groups raising hundreds of millions, if not billions of dollars on renderings and slide decks. So it's easy money, right? Because the problem is now so obvious that you don't have to spend so much time educating potential investors what the problem is. Everybody knows what the problem is. So we need to find a way to be able to bring these online. So let's just throw cash out there, right?

Justin Ballard (42:46.001)
Mm-hmm.

Jake Corley (43:03.917)
There's a lot of bad projects. I didn't put this on the slides. There's a lot of bad projects out there too. As with anything, right? You can go to NAEP and you can look, if you've never been to NAEP for the oil and gas industry, you go there. If you're probably prospecting, you might be on the small end of the scale. You're looking to go drill a few wells, raise a little bit of money, put it together. Guess what? There's a lot of shit deals there. Most of them are shit, right? But there are some good ones and there's some great ones, right? So as with anything,

there's going to be bad deals, but the bad deals leave a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths who are just spectating, you know, the analysts who are kind of looking at it and saying, oh, this is a bubble, this didn't work out and this didn't work out. No different than what we've seen in Bitcoin, right? So with, you know, scam bankman freed, that was huge, right? Mt. Gox, that was huge. CZ, huge, just got pardoned though, by Trump.

Justin Ballard (43:47.419)
Right. Right.

Jake Corley (44:00.451)
So we've had our own fair share in the Bitcoin space of bad press, right? You're gonna see the same thing in AI. It's just getting warmed up. So there's gonna be a ton more than that. So you have to overbuild in speculation. Then let's go into the economics don't quite add up. So there's that argument. So Morgan Stanley saying AI infrastructure spending could have won a 2.2, $2.9 trillion by 2028 as we talked about, right? So there's a $1.5 trillion financing gap.

That's a lot of money for one. Right. So you could take a lot of the money that's being allocated to private equity or venture capital and reallocate that to this. And I still don't even know if we would kind of hit that gap. then Bain estimates that the sector needs about two trillion dollars in annual revenue to sustain this level of growth. Yet current projections are saying that we're about eight hundred

billion dollars short.

How do we continue to fund this? And so then let's go on to financing and credit risk. So the private credit market for data infrastructure is $50 billion, up from pretty much zero in 2018.

Justin Ballard (45:06.45)
a lot.

Jake Corley (45:22.222)
US banks now lend 14 % of commercial portfolios to non-bank credit funds. That's a whole other podcast talking about private credit and whether that is the next big bubble that busts. Because it seems like it's very easy to raise the money. Essentially you're doing what institutions have done for long time, but you're just skirting regulations. And so that's where you've seen these things blow up and you've been able to allocate a lot of capital.

Justin Ballard (45:36.488)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Jake Corley (45:50.627)
Let's talk about the GPU so S &P Global estimates 15 to 20 billion dollars in GPU refresh cost every four to five years We've seen that we know that GPUs depreciate way faster than just about anything else and why? It's because the technology is constantly evolving every time you turn around There's new technology. It's higher power. It could be more efficient. It's these one megawatt racks now, it's

There's always, and so therefore, if you're holding onto something or you have something, it's gonna depreciate at a very, so you already have this massive shortfall in revenue, then you have to add the depreciation on top of it of the money that you've already spent and all this infrastructure, and you have to keep spending that money just to have the latest and greatest, to be able to compete, right? So the Bitcoin equivalent of that is running the top of the line machines that you are changing out constantly.

Justin Ballard (46:37.822)
Mm-hmm.

Justin Ballard (46:46.566)
Right. Which is a problem, right? When you run any kind of operation, they're expensive and yeah, if you're doing that, you're never going to pay them out.

Jake Corley (46:47.959)
Right. Yeah.

Very expensive.

Jake Corley (48:41.827)
Yeah, so if capital titans or AI revenue growth slows these financing structures could cascade throughout The entire system right all this everything is dependent on the kind of one another I will say that if you listen to like Sam Altman, you know CEO of opening I Talk about the ways that they're gonna monetize in the future and he's like, well, we'll just ask last chat GPT What are some of the new ways that we could?

grow monetization over time. I think that as of right now, it's been very cheap. They've released some more expensive options with more power. I think they're gonna get more creative over time and the way that they're able to monetize. I think they can continue to spin off new products, not just them, but just the entire AI ecosystem. And so I think that we're very much in this land and expand. So get as many people on as possible, as many...

weekly active users as possible. Once we get them in, we'll see how they're using it. They have all of that data. They can develop entirely new ways to be able to monetize that. So I'm not particularly as worried about that as, say, other people. I didn't even press record.

Justin Ballard (49:42.174)
Mm-hmm.

Jake Corley (50:00.291)
It's okay. We got the audio for it. So I'm not gonna go back and repeat all of that. So now let's look, is this durable growth? So we know there's real demand, we know there's real utilization. Look at the vacancy rates. You look at the pre-leasing. It's not speculative. These are some of the most credit-worthy companies in the entire world.

Justin Ballard (50:02.962)
heard.

Jake Corley (50:24.419)
OpenAI is touting, I don't think we talked about this yet, about doing an IPO. It would be the second largest IPO the world's ever seen behind Saudi Aramco, which IPO'd at a $1.8 trillion market cap. And they only sold a very, very small percentage of the company. So OpenAI is looking to do the same thing. They're currently valued at half a trillion dollars privately. It would not surprise me if they exceeded that.

I think it'll be a massively oversubscribed round and they can raise as much money as they possibly want. This is a paradigm shift. I think that a lot of people are lumping some of the past bubbles together and they think it's analogous to what we're seeing here. This is a total paradigm shift. This is not the dot com boom. And the dot com boom or burst of the bubble, you're seeing really, really dumb companies.

that really did really, really dumb novel things, raised lots of money at crazy evaluations. This is...

Justin Ballard (51:28.06)
Right.

Jake Corley (51:31.415)
This is intelligence. It's so smart now, and imagine how much smarter it's going to be in five years.

Justin Ballard (51:39.987)
Right. Well, and I think it's already impacting the way things are done. It's already impacting jobs. It's already impacting. mean, some, I think it was Amazon announced 14,000 layoffs from basically mid management. I think I saw something about, there's been a million, layoffs from American companies this year and

I want to say, you know, it could be totally wrong. think it's 17 % of those are directly attributed to AI. Um, and just basically we don't need them. Man, we're in like the top of the first inning. You know what I mean?

Jake Corley (52:23.799)
Yeah, yeah, this is it's still I don't even know if we're out of the the national anthem yet. I think we're still we're in we're we're entering the stadium. We're getting a hot dog. We get some mustard on our shirt. Like that's where we're at. Like we're not even getting warmed up.

Justin Ballard (52:28.537)
Right, right, we might not be.

Justin Ballard (52:33.276)
Yeah. Right. Right. no, and it's like manning, it's going to happen so fast. so that's where I think the money sees that. Right. the the guys behind the curtain see all this. And I just think it's a it's a train that's not going to stop. And we just got to be like we got to be prepared for like this is the world that's that's coming for us is what we're going to live in.

going forward and, the, when the whole boomer bust bubble question, it's depending on how you define what a bubble is. Yeah. There's gonna, there's going to be a bubble aspect to it. Like not all of these projects are going to work. Somebody's going to win. Somebody's going to lose. That's right. Right.

Jake Corley (53:19.651)
Yeah, that's the natural way of any new, I don't want to use the word fad, that's not the right word, but any new wave that's kind of coming in where it requires a lot of capital investment. You saw the same thing in Shale. Think about how many companies went bust, like over 200, if not more.

Justin Ballard (53:33.662)
Right. Right.

Right. But shale is very real and impactful though. know, the US is the number one producer in the world because of shale.

Jake Corley (53:42.4)
Yeah.

now that we get to the other side of it, we've got much cheaper energy, right?

Justin Ballard (53:48.22)
Right, right, right. Yeah.

Jake Corley (53:50.753)
But yeah, so on the case for durable growth, infrastructure holds lasting value. So while the GPUs do depreciate fast, power, pipelines, property, you know, it's those who own the generation, the transmission, the interconnects. And I'll even go a step further and say those who have existing MaxSpace, that's valuable. We've seen that play out with CoreWeave, CoreScientific, CoreWeave, Galaxy, Terawolf, Google. The list goes on and on and on.

And now we've seen that reflected in the stock of like public Bitcoin mining companies that are now leasing out Rackspace for GPUs, Bitforms, Iron.

Justin Ballard (54:27.88)
which we told you this is gonna be happening.

Jake Corley (54:30.547)
All of this, mean, since BitFarms came on the podcast, there's stocks up like, a lot.

Justin Ballard (54:35.994)
Yeah, I know. love it. Now they've pulled back this whole convertible note thing as a, it was a bit of surprise because they were freaking ripping and yeah, that, the dilution of the shareholders took a freaking big old chunk out of it. But you know, I'm sure there'll be another leg coming up. I hope anyway.

Jake Corley (54:58.497)
Yep. So I think the, the truth is somewhere in the middle, which we just kind of went through, right? So macro trend AI and compute demand is durable. It's foundational. It's global. It's completely undeniable. Right. And then you have the micro behavior of unqualified builders, speculative capital, frothy valuations, which definitely has characteristics that are associated with previous bubbles. Right. But I think that's also

Justin Ballard (55:06.109)
Right.

Justin Ballard (55:23.812)
a bubble right right

Jake Corley (55:28.141)
just the way things go.

Justin Ballard (55:30.002)
Yeah, it is. People get excited about new things that are going to be big and everybody wants to jump in. And so it ends up getting frothy. It's, mean, it's, is, this is nothing new. It's a pattern that never goes away. And, but yeah, like you basically have been saying is this is not, this isn't a fad. This is a paradigm shift and it's not going to go anywhere. you know, in

Jake Corley (55:31.319)
Right.

Justin Ballard (55:58.599)
Going back to my first love of the topics we're discussing, Bitcoin, I think long-term, this is only bullish for Bitcoin. When we've got an economy built on artificial intelligence that transacts basically over the internet, doesn't it make sense that the hardest form of money is going to be Bitcoin? The transactible...

Jake Corley (56:22.551)
Yeah, it would be very hard to make a case that, there would be this entirely new currency that AI would transact with or AI agents would transact with when Bitcoin could serve that purpose more effectively.

Justin Ballard (56:28.254)
Alright.

Right.

Especially when you still have, right? You're still going to be transacting cross borders, right? And that's where the CBDC stuff, which I'm obviously a hundred percent against. That is that it's still a problem. Bitcoin's not man. Bitcoin, Bitcoin fixes that. So I just, I think it's, I think it is going to be bullish for Bitcoin and, yeah, it's not something that's going away. It's.

It's not a bubble in the sense that it's not going to exist anymore. and that's just some passing fad. It, think the way you put it on here is perfect. It's, it's very real with little bubbles inside of it that are basically restricted to different companies. But the way, of the future is certainly going to be heavy AI.

Jake Corley (57:26.339)
Yeah, there's a lot of winners regardless. Obviously, Nvidia is up just massively. AMD, TSMC, so the chip makers kind of as a whole are gonna be winning, right? Power providers, anybody who controls molecules, megawatts and delivery, infrastructure owners, who own and operate generation grid and connects and land. And this is a huge opportunity for energy companies to be able to reinvent themselves.

Justin Ballard (57:29.917)
Right.

Jake Corley (57:55.521)
And I think that I've been very, critical of just the incumbents in the energy industry who put their blinders on and say, we're good at what we do, and we're just going to stay focused on that. And there's a lot of power in that. However, you've been gifted the best opportunity ever to be able to rebrand from being an oil and gas company to an oil and power company and a power company that powers intelligence, the most valuable thing.

in the world. This is a better way. You go from being a price taker to a price maker and it's a paradigm shift for the business model, particularly those in oil and gas. And so, yeah, I would like to see more that you've seen. You've seen the tides are changing. You've seen companies that are coming around, some of the companies that we're talking to and partnering with on our sites, which we'll talk more about when the time's right. But you should see more of it.

Justin Ballard (58:31.528)
Hmm.

Justin Ballard (58:44.414)
Mm-hmm.

Jake Corley (58:50.827)
Right and there shouldn't be as much resistance to it as there still is it's mind-blowing to me that people still haven't wrapped their heads around that but As we've been talking about booms and busts are a future of capitalism Not a flaw and every great bleed ford starts as a frenzy and ends as a foundation that was true of shale That was true of railroads That was true of telecom

Justin Ballard (59:10.983)
Whoa.

Jake Corley (59:19.885)
the list goes, it goes down the line, right? It's proven to be true through every single boom that we've had, right?

Justin Ballard (59:26.184)
Dude, who wrote this? Was this AI or was it AU? Either way, it's great.

Jake Corley (59:31.469)
We'll never know.

Justin Ballard (59:34.217)
Hey, you still had to prompt it. You know what I mean? You still got to put that. People got to understand how to use it. You know what I mean? That's going be a show for another topic for another show too. But learning how to use AI on an individual basis for your own personal and professional goals is going to be critical to separating yourself in the future.

Jake Corley (59:37.411)
Yeah

Jake Corley (59:57.059)
100%. It blows my mind when people haven't taken the time to really learn, right? I mean, that applies to everything, not just AI, but I think most people just are kind of on autopilot with their life and they're not a student of the things that are going on around them. And obviously it's different for us. We work in it. We're obsessed with it. But this has been fun. This has been fun. If you guys like the format, let us know. think that kind of just, these are the things that I think about and you think about.

Justin Ballard (01:00:04.125)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Justin Ballard (01:00:11.122)
Right.

Justin Ballard (01:00:19.518)
What's up,

Jake Corley (01:00:26.637)
and we read about and we obsess about and stuff. And so I think this has been fun. Just gonna be able to talk through it this way. yeah, let's do some more episodes. We gotta give the people what they want.

Justin Ballard (01:00:39.262)
Give the people what they want!

Justin Ballard (01:00:44.331)
Alright, I like it. Thank you guys. Jake, well done.

Jake Corley (01:00:50.411)
Like and subscribe, leave us a rating and review, share with your friends. If there's anything you want us to talk about, let us know. We've got a couple more shows kind of planned out. And so we will catch you guys on the next episode.

Justin Ballard (01:01:03.113)
Later.