Energizing Bitcoin

Man, I'm glad we got, we
could get you on here.

Um, especially somebody, you know, running
a company like Phoenix and thank you.

Uh, appreciate it.

Yeah, man.

It's like, wow, we're getting
like, I had Christian Lopez on here

last and now I get you on here.

It's like, man, we're getting
some legit guys going now.

So it's awesome, man.

But, uh, yeah, welcome.

Thank you.

I'm, I'm happy to be here, to be honest.

You're here for the conference, right?

I'm here for the conference.

Uh, not just a conference.

It's kind of a trip I'm taking started
from Canada, our site up in St.

Leon, and then down to North
Dakota, we got a site there.

And then of course, these two days to
be here in Dallas, it's a place to be.

Right, right.

I agree.

And the conference, I haven't
even got a set foot in.

But I heard it looks pretty good
and it sounds like it's packed.

Yeah, a lot, a lot of good
people from the industry.

It's, it's a good one because it's very
focused on people from the industry.

Not just only miners.

I can see a lot of things that actually
from the finance side of the crypto,

Lenders, so it's, it's more focused on,
on that vertical of the business also

providing a liquidity, the kind of stuff
that you don't see in all the conferences.

I was going to say that's a little
bit different than a lot of the other

conferences we see, which I'm not
dogging, I'm going to have a good time,

but a lot of them are kind of more like
a, it's almost like a pep rally instead

of, you know what I mean, instead of
like a business, uh, meeting or event.

But.

Yeah, no, it's I think the whole industry
right now because of obviously the

price jump Everybody's realizing but
the chatter and the talk around it being

so focused on like the The political
headwinds being behind us instead of in

front of us now for the first time ever.

And I think it's just created
a lot of excitement from large

institutional type type players
and also from the government angle.

I think that's a huge deal.

And you're from Dubai.

You live in Dubai.

Um, and I think I'm, I see the
different things in the Middle East,

but they seem to be Ahead of the
curve a lot, I feel like they're

much more aggressively embracing
like crypto Bitcoin in particular.

Um, and it's just, it's.

It's exciting to see.

I was in Dubai in February 22, actually
it was the first time I'd ever been

in the Middle East and, um, first
of all, Dubai is freaking crazy.

It felt like I was in like a
virtual reality or something.

It was wild, dude.

There was no trash on the ground.

Everybody's saying the same thing these
days about it, to be honest, yeah.

It's crazy.

It's crazy.

The pace of progress is, it's very unique.

It feels Lights man, they are moving.

You know what I mean?

It just I left there and I don't say
this in an unpatriotic Way, but like

there's been a lot of things over the
last few years where i'm like, man

We're in decline like big time and
then I go to a place there and i'm

like I felt the exact opposite I was
like These guys are ramping up big time

and there's a lot of like opportunity
and capital available, it felt like.

And it just, it was really
freaking crazy to see them building

islands and stuff out there.

I'm like, I've never
seen anything like it.

So I liked being there
and now I want to go back.

Cause you told me what a really
cool event that I'm going

to go make sure I'm part of.

But, um, but it's just, it's
nice to see now the U S kind

of embracing seeing more of a.

Pro, um, you know, Bitcoin development
and Bitcoin mining and Bitcoin, uh,

strategic reserve type, all those
things are such new, good things for our

whole industry that like, I feel just
emboldened because I've made it through

the bear market and now I get to start
reaping the benefits of one of these.

You know, bull runs for the first
time all of us are looking for

well, you know in ua in general
Since let's say last 20 25 years.

I think what happened was that In
general, the priorities were set

and everybody was very focused into
building and making sure from, this

is the goal from point A to point B,
and we're going to need A, B, C, D.

One of them definitely is going to be
technology, being technology driven.

So a country out of Middle
East wants to advance.

And try to get into the standards
of best countries in the world.

So the main thing that
was needed was the goal.

And then in order to reach those
goals, one of the main, uh, I

would say apparatus was technology.

And crypto, uh, This started a
couple of years back when, uh.

Uh, the leadership did a company in a
country in Abu Dhabi decided to establish

like the biggest crypto mining farm
at that time, probably in the world or

one, maybe top three, that that thing
was all behind the same notion of that.

It's a technology.

If you want to get ahead of everybody
else, we have to make sure we adapted.

We have to make sure.

We work with it.

We have to understand how it works.

And it's always been with
UAE, Abu Dhabi and Dubai.

It's always been like, okay, a new
technology comes and still you see it.

If it's a flying taxi, okay, let's do it.

If it's a hyperloop, let's do it.

So the whole country and the
government over there is more focused

in, in basically the progress and,
um, the economy of the country.

Those, those are the things that dictates
the policies when they want to come.

When a country and its leadership
is very focused on top three, four

things, um, you get a good result.

So it's about security.

I still don't lock my house in Dubai.

I still don't do it.

I would, that means even
probably safer by many.

Uh, factors you, you check on
the Instagram or anywhere top

10, uh, safe cities in the world.

So these are the amazing, so the
security, it's one of the things, cause

I always have this things like money
and capital is like, it's like water.

It always goes where it's comfortable.

So that's thing security.

That's, they're amazing.

Top notch.

And they're.

Adaptation, the pace of adaptation,
uh, crypto mining facility

in Abu Dhabi is one of it.

You'll see M two before any of these
big, other, other big exchanges

come to UAE where we started M two.

And so the government is very,
very progressive and they want

to make sure that whatever is
technology out there, UUA e gets it.

Uua e gets it fast, and
we saw it in Covid also.

This, this is the notion behind the
leadership and what you're trying to do.

And this, this helps us a lot.

And this helps us to be in an
environment that the government

and the leadership, they're very.

Now pro technology pro crypto
and welcome new technologies.

So that's a very big add
on for us being there.

I think anybody who's been there
probably would be like everybody

I've talked to who's ever been there.

And when I tell them kind of my
experience, everybody's on the same page.

It's just, it's remarkable.

And it is a.

It's kind of a tribute to what a
government can do when, like you

said, they got kind of the right
goals and the right things in

mind and kind of business focus.

That's why I'm excited about the
Trump administration coming in.

I don't think the U.

S.

has had a business friendly administration
like this, maybe ever, not where they

had House, Senate, and the Presidency.

So I'm excited just to see what can
happen now because I do think it's

kind of an arms race to, you know,
Make sure you have, you know, Bitcoin

as like your country is situated to
be a participant in the worldwide

kind of economy that Bitcoin creates.

So.

I don't know, man.

I'm, I'm really excited about what's
going to be coming, um, over the next

four years, next two years, especially,
but even over the next four years,

um, I think that there's so much
opportunity to, like, grow businesses

and establish, like, businesses that
will go beyond this next administration

well into the future because of what
happens over the next two years.

In Phoenix, where you run in the
shop, um, you guys have been doing

a lot and, um, I've worked with
you guys and yeah, full disclosure,

I've, I've been your guys counsel.

I've also done deals with you guys.

Um, so sure.

I'm biased a little bit, but.

And I've told Sarah this, I have not
enjoyed doing deals with anybody more

than I've enjoyed working with you guys.

I'm glad to hear that.

I'm dead serious.

It's, it's been Haroon, uh, Elsa, all the,
all the, all the, uh, attorneys over there

have been the best ones to work with.

I think i've ever done any
work with so appreciate it.

Um, shout out to you guys, man.

Um, But all that being
said what are your guys?

Kind of goals now with kind
of the bitcoin price ripping.

Are you guys still looking for
acquisitions of sites or companies?

Or are you looking to maybe
develop your pipeline?

Like deploying capital to just deploy
it to building out infrastructure That

you've already owned a megawatts on.

Well, you know, um, we already started
the strategy after the halving.

We have, so we have plans.

Uh, number one, we're going to make sure
that those plans that we have in pipeline,

we have a couple, couple of a hundred
megawatts, let's say on the pipeline.

We're still going to keep developing.

That's what we're going to do, but
we're going to be very sensitive.

Selective about the sites and the power
price and where we're going to be.

That's number one.

Um, number two, we're going to, what
we have as a mandate from, from our.

Uh, highest manager management is
that we want to work with people

more in terms of a joint venture,
not just because of the profitability

of it and the finance aspect of it.

Uh, but also because we want
to expand our network and our

footprint as a listed company.

Uh, of course we look for growth.

Uh, but we also want to make sure
that any any kind of development that

we're getting into It's it's one of
those that we it can last After the

whole halving that's coming as well.

So we kind of want to, it's
a, it's a hybrid model.

Uh, we're not thinking about a lot of
acquisitions, to be honest, our other

wings of the group to working on web three
projects lively was just a recent one.

That got launched.

It's very successful now.

The token is doing amazing.

The platform is doing well.

And, uh, that's a fitness thing, right?

Uh, no, not just a fitness thing.

It's basically, uh, a social
media platform for content.

Yeah.

Uh, it's getting very popular there
because some of the people just got

tired of what's happening on social
and Instagram getting bombarded with

content that Some of it has no value
and just want to get rid of it.

So that was the web and the web
three, um, concept behind it also.

So, uh, this was, so you can basically the
content creators, uh, they get rewarded

for the content that you're creating.

So.

We're going to be very focused in terms
of web three and development of projects.

That's where our development
is going to be and maybe

acquisitions down the line in JV.

But in terms of the Bitcoin mining
side of it that I'm taking care of,

we're still going to build, we're
still, but, but building is not going

to be like what we saw five, six years
ago, everybody was just rushing to it.

Any power place.

I want to be there.

No, we're going to be learned from, uh,
from, from past and we want to be focused.

We're going to be focusing a bit of
maybe on the power generation side.

That's something we're seriously
looking at it, uh, to make sure that

because we want to see what's going
to happen down the road in four years.

So having our own power generation
is going to be an advantage

and we're looking at it.

Other side is building sites with
more efficient, uh, management.

I think this cycle, the last two
years taught everybody in the

business that you got to be efficient.

Softwares, controlling
your ops, your repair.

These are just things that five years ago,
you wouldn't pay that much attention to.

I wouldn't care if like
two, 3 percent of my.

Fleet is not working now.

It's all about these tiny percentage
because you want to make sure

you're better than everybody else.

So that kind of adaptation.

To efficiency as something that pushed
us right now to work on these things, be

more efficient in terms of our operations,
get rid of, if there is, if you have

a site that it's not efficient, we're
looking at different options, whether

liquidated or converging to a data center,
because that's another game as well.

So we're, we're kind of focused on that.

And in our expansion plans,
we're looking both in the U.

S.

And let's say North America, because
Canada seems to be more also becoming

a bit more lenient about Bitcoin
mining as well, and also out of U.

S.

Yes, that's one of the things I was
going to ask too, is like, um, other than

your operations in, say, North America,
because I know you guys got some in, uh,

Canada, where are you guys operating?

You got some in Dubai or?

We got some in Abu Dhabi.

So we got a, we got a JV, we
got a big site in Abu Dhabi.

It has a capacity to go to 270.

It's being operated
around at 240 right now.

So that's one of it.

And then we got operations in,
in, in North America, South

Carolina, North Dakota is coming
on, you know better about it.

So we're very excited about North
Dakota because things are going, we're

going very smooth there basically.

We're on track and St.

Leon in Canada, Manitoba, and things
are becoming a bit positive there.

I think what we see is that what
happened in the election was kind

of a, to us as foreigners, it was
like a revolution because we were

always like, when we were seeing it
from outside, we were like, okay,

superpower, why everything is so slow.

Everything is so against the businesses.

You have to be careful about what you say.

And it, it, it kind of like, it was
looking like a derailing and now we're

so also excited because in Middle
East, we're also looking at it from the

political side, kind of a stability.

It's good for our business.

So from, for us, we all saw it as a
revolution because it's not just one

parties out and another one is out.

We kind of see that it's like people
in charge of business is back.

Uh, capitalism, capitalism
is probably back now.

It things are going to be done.

Based on how it makes sense
financially, not because you want

to make sure that no one gets hurt.

Right, right, right.

So, so things, and that's very good.

Their feelings hurt.

Exactly.

I'm so glad to be getting rid of this.

I was watching the election night,
it was like, it was early morning.

Yeah.

And I was like, cause you know,
all these pools were saying

it's a tie it's neck to neck.

And I was like, okay, let's watch it.

And I was looking at Virginia.

I was like, he's, he's
only behind like 9%.

I was like, okay, let's,
let's keep tap on this.

And then.

Suddenly, all these votes were getting
counted and I was like, this seems like

it's going to be really interesting.

And we were hoping for any
kind of election that it

wouldn't get into a dispute.

So this one is undisputed.

Right.

Right.

And now we can see the, the business,
the business people are in charge.

They understand the potential of
crypto and the people are that are

that, that are taking charge, are
not taking, taking these positions in

the government because they need it
financially or they have to feel secure.

They want to make sure that they
don't sign this because they might

not get up the ladder, right?

Right.

These are all business peoples that
they're there to get things done.

I know man.

That's great for crypto, right?

It is and that's literally that's
actually the best way to put it is that

you look at like the top four cabinet
members He's already um Nominated and

Or going to basically the point, um,
they're all big corners, all of them.

And like big time one.

So I know it's like, yeah, man, we,
this, and I'm sure it was exciting for

you guys too, but like, if you think
about it, think of how you would feel

if your government was actively like
talking about how to eliminate you,

you know, and what you do for a living.

It's like, man, the way I know
myself and like Jake and a lot of

my buddies are in the industry here.

I haven't felt this way in a long
time where I'm just like excited

about, you know, the future because I
don't have to worry about, you know,

the constant barrage of legislation
that is trying to put a hamper on.

Aren't you being able to make a living?

It's like, man, this is
super, super exciting.

So remember that 30 percent tax on
energy that we're talking about?

Oh my God.

Absurd.

Absurd.

When that was out there, I was like,
okay, as a Bitcoin miner, 50 to

58 percent of my cost is my power.

Right.

So you're going to take another 30 on top.

I'm going to be with 86%.

So are you telling me
I'm going to make 14%?

Right.

You can't do that.

You know what I mean?

The, the, the, the business.

That's a, that's a business killer.

So I'm just, yeah, it's a huge relief
to get that stuff out of the way.

And, and, uh, be able to now
kind of focus on, on building.

And that's, yeah, that's where I
think there's going to be tremendous

growth in the next three, four years.

But, um, what about on the AI side?

Like you guys, I mean, you guys
have some obviously serious back

and I think you guys are probably.

Like if I wanted a counterparty,
first person I'm going to call is you

guys, because you can execute on it.

But in the AI world, this obviously
is very, very expensive to build.

Are you guys looking to
Get into that game more.

Do you have some going already or like,
we're right now on a technical aspect

of it, we're, we're looking at it.

Mm-hmm . Because it's, it
needs a lot of capital.

'cause I remember months ago, per megawatt
of a Bitcoin mining cost would be 1.3 and

on a data center would be probably seven.

Then suddenly on a, on a ai, it could
get up to even 40, including the cards.

So, uh, it's, it's so crazy, isn't it?

It's socra, it's, it
needs a lot of capital.

What we're looking at right
now, we're looking at it.

Um, of course, this is something that
has to come from our main shareholders

in Abu Dhabi and our principal.

And if we get a mandate on it,
we work on it more, but we're

kind of doing in study right now.

One of the studies, for
example, we're trying to do in.

It's at 90 percent is that we're trying to
design, which is not an easy thing to do.

Uh, a base, a project, basically a
from power generation all the way

to the downstream of, of an Bitcoin
mining that would minimum cost.

You can convert it into a data center.

Now on the AI side, it's going to be a bit
difficult because you need the buildings.

It's kind of something required on the
other, uh, HPCs and other data centers.

You can still go with containers.

A lot of, a lot of companies
are coming with, uh, coming out

or coming up with solutions.

So we're working on that.

But on the main thing on AI, uh, we
see it's very much capital driven on

the technicalities of how to do it.

We're looking at it, but right now we
don't have anything on mandate to go

and do right away, purchase it because
we think we have to, we have to find

the right spot we're working right now.

We're another with another group.

To develop, uh, to
develop, uh, a big sites.

I cannot go into all the
details of it right now.

So yes, we're looking at it, but in
terms of execution, we're looking

at something probably down the line
in six, three, six months to a year.

Yes.

Yeah.

You'd primarily still
be like a Bitcoin miner.

Yes, we're gonna stay and be a bitcoin,
but what we have done Since the halving

every every company basically took
took some initiative To diversify

some went to data centers HPC.

One of the things we did we We didn't
pivot from Bitcoin mining, so we

stayed as a Bitcoin miner, but we
started, uh, other things that were,

uh, when you look at it, they're more
profitable in terms of profitability.

One would be M2, the exchange,
centralized exchange.

Others would be the Web3 projects.

Because we can see they're more profitable
than because when you look at, for

example, the web three projects and the
tokenization of assets or tokenization of

projects, the world is different there.

You're looking at three X, four X,
five X, six X in our world in Bitcoin

mining, we're looking at, okay.

There are different ways to
look at how you get, how you

calculate the profitability of it.

But these days you're looking at 30,
40%, you do better, you do worse.

You might go down to twenties,
but the finance world of crypto,

it's, it starts with X, it's like
2X, 3X, it's totally different.

So we, we made sure
we're, we're there also.

So is that a lot of software
developing and or what?

Coding and just building out.

Well, what's what's needed?

The planning is very important.

The development of it is very important.

Supervision of that
development is very important.

On the M2 side, Getting the regulatory
body to basically first understand this.

Thankfully, the regulatory body
in Abu Dhabi, they're so open.

So we, it could be like, it was a
journey for both of us to educate.

Of course, M2 has its own, Phoenix is a
shareholder, but a minority shareholder,

but we try to make sure that our co
founders and also the, uh, our principals

in Abu Dhabi, they've been trying
to talk to the, Uh, regulatory body.

And that has started well, actually,
if we started something that no one

thought could be done out of UAE.

So the finance side, so we kind of did
this diversification just to make sure,

because times were not easy for us.

You know that, what happened.

So now all of that is paying off well.

And we're going to still look into that.

I would think that the web three and.

What's happening on the finance side
of crypto has tremendous potential

and the adaptation that's, um, that's,
that's on the way and happening as we

speak is, is going to push it forward
and also more people will be able to

understand it and tap into that potential.

So we want to make sure that.

We're, we're there to, to make sure
that we're in that and be a pioneer

in that, at least in Middle East,
to take advantage from the situation

that that's, this is the time, this
is the right time, and now that the US

administration is a pro crypto, because
usually governments have Regulatory

bodies usually follow what the U.

S.

is doing.

This is going to change and gladly what
we have in Abu Dhabi was already open,

but had we had a government here that
was not pro crypto, you know, it's still

would, would put a bit of pressure, but
this is now, it's going to help a lot.

Yeah, I think so too, man.

So I would just have, uh, Christian
Lopez on talking about, you

know, what the market might do.

Um, you know, now that we're in kind
of a bull cycle, at least it looks

like we're going into a bull cycle.

You think there's going to
be some consolidation amongst

like the big players out there?

You think people are going to be kind
of like you were saying, you're going to

focus on your pipeline, you already have.

To develop, but you guys keep up much with
the, like the public companies here that

are scooping each other up or trying to,
Uh, well, what we're trying to do, cause

you know, there is an advantage that the
public companies here have is that they

can always go to market and raise funds.

Right.

Over there, we have to stick
with their own regulation.

And, uh, for us, it's not like
that we have to, we can go to

market and raise funds, but we
try to be efficient and grow.

And what we're over there, we don't
see a lot of competition to be honest.

We, but we always try to make sure
that, uh, with our American colleagues

here and, um, the big pop goes here.

We can keep up.

Hopefully, uh, in terms of consolidation,
I think here is going to, we're going

to see a lot of consolidation here
because There is a lot of capital when

there is a lot of capital, you can also
deploy to do a lot of acquisitions,

strategic ones, maybe financially, it's
not going to make sense, but people

will go to those kind of acquisitions
to just make a strategic move and make

sure they get a bigger market share.

Uh, what we're trying to do,
we've got, first, we're going

to focus on our own pipeline.

We're going to make sure we're
efficient in terms of power

and the fleets that we have.

But something in general, I believe
it's going to happen because right now,

of course, everything's profitable.

And you always know that there is always
a big chance that you get a correction.

So, when that happens, usually
the first ones that are going to

hurt you are those that are Yeah.

And we see a lot of that four
or five years ago, a lot of

people could do Bitcoin mining.

But right now, if you want to do Bitcoin
mining and you see it as a business

that you want to last, you want to
use your machines for four years.

Uh, you got to make sure that you have
a proper infrastructure for it, whether

it's immersion or hydro, those are the
kind of things you're going to look at

because we know that the air cold miners
are not going to last like the other two.

So it's becoming in terms of a business,
I would call it the industry itself.

The whole Bitcoin mining is
becoming very industrialized.

Right.

Big sites.

I personally believe that down the
line, that's what's going to happen.

Probably I'm maybe I'm wrong.

I think down the line in five, 10
years, Bitcoin mining companies.

Like oil, oil companies, we're going to
have like, we're going to have like a

couple of them, maybe by the, you can
count them by your, uh, by your hand.

And then everybody else who wants
to get exposure to Bitcoin can

either go buy the stock, buy the
index or buy the hash online.

It's going to, because right now.

You take a look at the miners 335 TE
hash miner right now at the price, it's

varying between items six or 17 to 24.

It's becoming expensive.

Mm-hmm . One, so the average
Joe out there cannot just go and

get a thousand or $10,000 miner.

Right.

Miners used to be cheaper.

And just plug it in because you
also need the infrastructure for it.

So I think down the line, what we're
going to see a couple of companies

out there, mining, popcos, or bigger
private ones, probably, and everybody

else wants exposure, either go to buy
their stocks, get ETF or buy the BTC, or

what you're seeing that becoming very,
very popular buying the hash rates.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Do you guys have a hash?

We have a platform.

We also work with some of the, uh,
big, uh, uh, platforms for, uh,

buying and selling hashrates online.

And also we have our own
digital mining dot com.

You can always buy a hashrate.

Uh, depends on the market price.

Sometimes it's above the index.

Sometimes it's below the index.

It keeps varying.

And I think that's gonna be the
retail market in the future.

That is awesome because
I've wanted that to happen.

I think that people can't
afford those machines.

And I actually was talking about this with
Christian too, and somebody else, I think

a lot of the groups, um, Some of the best
return projects I've seen are like S19 J

Pros on like two cent power that you have
available for like 70 percent of the day.

That's the ROI on those was ridiculous.

It's like six months, you know,
it's, it's super cheap and it's

like capital that anybody can
really get together, small guys.

I could see a place for like small miners
to basically be just like in oil and gas.

There's companies that will pick
up a strip of production because

that makes sense for them.

They can make it work, but it
doesn't make sense for a big guy.

So I do, I look at the
Bitcoin miner world.

It's identical to the
oil and gas world to me.

Like, that's exactly what I'm thinking.

That same direction.

Yeah.

Like you have the chevrons and exons
and BPs, and then you get these little

mom and pop shops that are buying up
all the strip of production and just.

Trying to, you know, screw by and make it.

Gimmick money, profitable, yeah.

So, yeah, I mean, I couldn't agree more.

And, um, I guess I want to get to, uh,
you guys, this is another one, I don't

know if you can talk about it, but if you
would, I heard rumors about, uh, you, or

I guess Bajon, Having tigers and lions.

You correct me.

It's a lion, right?

It's a lion.

True.

It's a lion.

Okay.

So, uh, I got it.

Now he doesn't have to give it away.

Well, he came too big.

Yeah.

He got too big.

That's when I know I want, I've made it
is when I can get a pet exotic animal.

So I used to, I lived in Missouri
growing up and there was a, there

was, um, this person lived outside
of town and they had like lions.

They had tigers, they had bears.

Oh.

It was like wizard, lion and
tigers and bears of mine.

But they had the, all those out there.

And uh, like we, we tried to get, you
know, my wife's not here so I talk about

it 'cause I went to high school with her.

But we tried to , we tried to get,
you know, chicks to go out with us

to, we'd go show 'em at night and
take 'em out to see these animals.

But there was one time I was
Turkey hunting and I'd been

out drinking the night before.

So I'm kind of hung over a little bit and
I fall asleep in my tree and my brother's

sitting on the other side of the tree.

And I hear him, he's like, hey
Barrett, my nickname is Barrett.

And he's like, Barrett, Barrett, wake up.

I'm like, huh?

And he said, look, look across
the field, what is that?

And I look over there and
I'm like, it is that thing.

It looks like a big ol
huge golden retriever.

And so, um, I'm watching,
watching, you know, I can't

tell, but this thing is massive.

And we go home, and we didn't
have cell phones back then.

I get in the door and my dad's
like, where'd you, did you

go hunting over at Feldman's?

I'm like, yeah.

He's like, yeah.

Don't go over there for a while
until they tell you, uh, one of the

lions got out and they're out there.

I was like, dang, we saw
the freaking lion out there.

I was turkey hunting, like,
using, I got a 12 gauge out there.

It'd be like throwing grapes at a
giant, man, if it came over, but yeah.

So I've had, I've had experience with
lions too, but no pet ones though.

Yeah, her name was Candy.

Oh my God.

Yeah, for like two, three months,
uh, we, we kept her around.

And then I was like, dude, we
just gotta do something about it.

We gotta get rid of the lion, man.

This is not, you know,
it's not sustainable.

It's kind of scary.

We can't have it.

Yeah, yeah, I mean, I was like,
first of all, how do you, how do

you make the decision to go get it?

You know what I mean?

I, well, uh, Is there any guys like
sitting around just hanging out

and like, Man, I know what we need.

We need a line in here.

Cause look, Bijan is always the guy
who's always thinking out of the box.

Like even the fun is out of the box.

Even the business is out of the box.

It's always like, it's
always been like that.

So when everyone's like thinking about
cats and dogs, he's thinking about lions.

It's the same thing.

It's the same thing.

It's always been the same.

Hey, man, that's probably why you guys
have had so much success, you know.

Thank you.

Appreciate it.

He needs to meet my brother.

My brother is, uh, he's a bit of a shaman.

He's always got weird stuff going on too.

You should come and meet him in Abu Dhabi.

I told you I'm coming.

I'm coming.

F1, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Put it in the books, I'm coming.

We'll do, we'll do a little mini
documentary while we're out there.

Sure, sure.

It'll be fun.

But, uh, well, I don't know how
long you're going to be in TV.

I'm going to be here, I think,
until the weekend, and we can, we,

I'm going to fly to Charlotte and
then drive down to South Carolina.

Yeah, but sure, for sure.

How often do you get into the States?

Oh, a lot.

I mean, the last time I met you,
you had all the Trump gear on.

Yeah.

We had a, we had a Trump, like
we have a whole Trump set on my

way back from South Carolina.

When I was driving, I saw a trailer with
a lot of Trump signs and just pulled over.

I said, wait a second, I'm
going to do this trailer.

There's this guy sitting there
looking at me, who's this guy?

Who's this Middle Eastern dude?

Middle Eastern dude.

It was like.

Um, how can I help you?

I'm like, okay, I just want to, I started
buying stuff, all of that pro crypto

thing and the flags and all of that.

And he looks at me, he's actually
spending money, shopping, shopping.

And then he looks at him, he looks at me,
he's like, so where are you coming from?

You think you seem like you're
a long way back from home.

I said, yeah, I'm coming from Dubai.

He looks at.

Is it a place that they
just like build big islands?

I said, yeah, sort of.

And so I buy a lot of things, a lot
of souvenirs for Bijan and everybody.

And then from MOGS,
anything that you can find.

Nice t shirt, fun t shirts.

I see he, he, he lit literally
lives in the trailer.

Yeah.

So I looked at it like there's this
big, big, uh, uh, Trump, uh, banner.

Yeah.

It's written on, it wanted 'cause he
got convicted at Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Wanted, and then, uh, below
that it, it was written for

President and then That's awesome.

Yeah.

Was there, so I was like.

I got to get this.

And then he looks at, I
said, look, I need this.

He was like, that's not for sale.

I'm like, okay, well, how come?

Why?

Come on, work with me.

He's like, I look, I told him,
look, I'm long way from home.

You said, and I want to get
this for a friend of mine.

And he was like, no, but
I use it as a separator.

Also, that's where I live.

I'm like, Oh my God, his bed is there.

It's like, come on, man, I, I, I did,
I, I paid for all of these things.

Give me something unique.

So then he made it, he folded it.

It's like, okay, it'll be, he puts it
in these black bags and I'm like, I'm

taking out, okay, now I'm going to fly
to JFK, New York, that's a blue state.

So I'm just going to be
careful with this all the way.

So I was like, when I was in Texas
or red state, I was like, Oh, when

I was passing through the airport,
cause I never have checked in luggage.

So all of the things, and I was
okay in New York, I was like, um,

it's a blue state, be careful with
all these things that you purchase.

It was fun.

Yeah, no, I, I, that's what, I'm, I was
curious, like in the Middle East, and I

know you probably gotta go first, but,
um, How, like, we hear the news, and

the news makes us sound like everybody
in the world hates Trump, and Thinks

he's a joke, thinks he's a clown.

But it, it doesn't
sound like that's, yeah.

I think what Trump, maybe
the first administration he

had is, was a bit different.

Right.

But this time the message was that
it's, we wanna be pro business.

Right.

Not pro not hurt your feelings.

Right.

Right.

So this was, and we, we saw
this as a, as a good thing.

Mm-hmm . 'cause what we are
seeing, what we are hearing.

All the time, the, the, this stereotype
was that, oh my God, if you want to do

anything, if you want to convince the U.

S.

government of anything, you can't do it.

It's going to take forever.

There's the paperwork.

So this seems like sounds, seems
and sounds like a reset button.

Right.

Yeah.

And this is very good for crypto.

Cause you know, we had to Talk
about crypto, about how this

adaptation is required and talking
about, look, it's very easy.

You don't need to be a
genius to understand it.

Imagine it's getting adapted.

The adaptation is increasing and
imagine the supply is going down.

So this, and this is a good
store of value, and good luck

explaining it to governments that
they just don't want to listen.

Right.

Now, and you see, when U.

S.

does something, rest of
the world usually follow.

Now with this, we always saw this as
an opportunity, so we think things are

going to get way better and different
for, Crypto and businesses, and we're

going to be back in a, in a, in a
kind of an environment that business

dictates everything, not just politics,
or I don't want your feelings to be

hurt or all of those kinds of things.

Every, um, cycle has like learnings,
I think that people get from each one.

And then there's a new thing that's kind
of thrown on, on into each new cycle.

I think last time it was, um, a lot
of institutional money came in from

mining side and all that this time.

I think the, there's an aspect to like
governments coming in and you know, the

whole strategic Bitcoin reserve and all
that kind of stuff could create a whole

new level of capital that we couldn't
really comprehend coming into the market.

But then on more of the like technical
side for individuals and looking at

mining and like why should I mine?

Versus why should I not just buy Bitcoin?

And I think there is a case for for this
and it's especially like during these

bull runs But you you were talking earlier
like what's your kind of thesis on that

or explanation for why people should
mine versus buying Bitcoin, I guess.

Well, you know, now things
are very much changed.

It's very easy to look at it.

Imagine you've got a cost of a miner.

What's associated with mining?

It's the cost of the miner.

It's the power.

These days when you do the math,
let's say even if you're at 6.

5 cents in terms of those who want
to do hosting, what you're looking

at is that when you depreciate your
assets, when you, when you look at the

cost of the electricity, the Bitcoin
price would come around 58 to 68,

000, depending how you calculate it.

So the cost of, so now, right now, if
you mine, you, you're mining a Bitcoin

at a cost of 58 to 68, probably maybe
70 on the highest one, and BTC is at 97.

Yeah.

So the down the downturn for this is, is,
the downside of this is that you, you,

you, you are mining Bitcoin at a, at a,
at a very great value 'cause there is a

chance that you buy at 97, buy at 104.

And still it comes down.

But in the mining, it's like you're
looking at it as a long term investment

that you're mining your Bitcoin, and
the cost right now is so attractive

that there is a big gap of 20, between
production and buying the Bitcoin.

Let's call it a ready product.

So it's making it very attractive.

And we're seeing the miner
prices are going up again.

People are turning off miners.

And I think this is, this is going to be
a huge thing for all of the miners and

everyone who wants to mine right now.

Now the economy makes so much
sense that you just have to

make sure you get there fast.

Right.

I've thought about this many times.

And like when you're in a bear market
and Bitcoin is tanked, that to me is like

the time, that's when you buy, right?

That's when I buy Bitcoin.

Exactly.

And when we get into these kinds
of times where it's like, You can't

keep up with the price, like, because
you, you anticipate there'll be some

levels of corrections in there, right?

But if I can produce Bitcoin then
at 58, 65, and somewhere in there,

I don't see how you can beat that.

And that's how institutions
are looking at it.

They don't look at it, let me buy.

And, oh, I'm going to sell my Bitcoin and,
uh, pay my power bill or hosting bill.

Now the big guys, they
understand it way better.

They minor BTC and they
pay the electricity.

They see it as a product that
they're buying at a cheaper price.

That by the time in three years, they're
just going to average and they look at it.

Okay.

We got our Bitcoin at a cost of, let's
say 70, 80, but look at it right now,

what we have, and it's going to be what?

200, So that's the game right now.

Yeah.

When you got going with, and I'm sorry,
because this is kind of jumping back,

but it just kind of hit me, is like,
what was the government's viewpoint on

Bitcoin when you guys first got going?

Because, and I don't know, I hear
different things, but do you guys,

are you guys working closely with like
Sovereign Wealth Fund or anything?

Yes, I would say what happened
over there, I think, They were

the main pusher of this thing.

Really?

Yeah.

So they found us, we have, we had our
showroom on, uh, Sheikh Zayed road,

which is like the main, the place to be.

And we were approached and I think
that's, that's one of the things we talk

about, they are the pioneer of this.

One of the main reasons Phoenix is here
is because of government vision and the,

the leadership and what they have in mind.

So that's how we got encouraged.

And then of course, because before that
we were in Canada and other places,

but that was a pivoting moment for us.

Suddenly a site of 240 megawatt.

That was, that was the main factor,
the government and the vision and the

push that didn't exist anywhere else.

And now we're seeing that, that actually
paying off and we got, we got the

support and for, for our business cases.

So we're still looking if there
is more power there, we're

still going to look for it.

And down the line, what we want to
do, we want to expand Uh, with that

backing, and we want to make sure we're
still pioneers in our, uh, region.

Right, right, yeah.

I really appreciate you taking the time
to come do this, and um, Thank you.

I want to do some more of these,
and I'm, I think we're going to

probably, I gotta, I gotta convince
Sarah to get on board with it, which

I don't think it'll be too hard, but.

I think we're gonna go to Dubai
and hang out a little bit.

We're gonna do the next
one in F1 Abu Dhabi.

I like it.

I like it.

That's what I want to see you.

I want to see myself there.

So it sounds great, man.

But, well, thank you Reza.

I appreciate it, man.

Thank you.

We're, uh, we're gonna keep
doing some deals together too.

Good, good.

We're gonna do some
power generation stuff.

Because I'm on board
with you guys on that.

I think that's, uh, That's the key.

That's the future.

Yeah.

Being in control of your power.

Yeah.

That's it.

That to me is like retirement money.

That's going to put us in retirement.

Yes.

That's what I'm looking for.

Well, awesome.

Like and subscribe, listen to the show.

Appreciate you having a rest of the day.

Thank you.

Thank you for having me.